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Apr 20, 2013
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so the miranda issue may be not all that important as a legal matter. and the fact that they get information from him that can be used to make sure there are no other conspiracies out there, that may be very useful information. and they can still prosecute him very successfully without those statements because it sure seems like there is going to be a lot of evidence against this guy, independent of any statements he might have made. >> i want to bring in our national security analyst, peter bergen, joining us. peter has written extensively on al qaeda and osama bin laden. peter, i appreciate you joining us. what are the questions that you are most interested in learning about these two, in particular about motivation and their operational capability? >> well, first of all, anderson, i think it's very interesting that they were able to detonate two bombs almost simultaneously. i think that's pretty hard. it suggests either practice in the united states or training elsewhere or perhaps both. we've had terrorists who have gone overseas who have tried to d
so the miranda issue may be not all that important as a legal matter. and the fact that they get information from him that can be used to make sure there are no other conspiracies out there, that may be very useful information. and they can still prosecute him very successfully without those statements because it sure seems like there is going to be a lot of evidence against this guy, independent of any statements he might have made. >> i want to bring in our national security analyst,...
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Apr 17, 2013
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obviously they're going to question this suspect, they'll read the miranda rights and all of that. they're going to try to find out if this individual who has now been arrested acted alone as a so-called lone wolf or was part of some broader conspiracy, walk us through what the fbi is about to do. >> sure. well, wolf, they will -- they will take him into custody, they will give him his miranda rights because they want to be sure any statement the individual may make is admissible in court during the prosecution. if the individual agrees to talk, there will be -- they will take a statement and they will also likely confront him with forensic evidence and things that they have learned, photographs, they will ask him to identify how he constructed the bomb, how he knew to construct the bomb, who, if anyone, he worked with, who he communicated with, they'll want to -- they will want to make sure to take when he's arrested any cell phones, blackberries, pocket litter, pieces of paper, notebooks he may have on him and they'll want to have him retrace for them his steps. they will then se
obviously they're going to question this suspect, they'll read the miranda rights and all of that. they're going to try to find out if this individual who has now been arrested acted alone as a so-called lone wolf or was part of some broader conspiracy, walk us through what the fbi is about to do. >> sure. well, wolf, they will -- they will take him into custody, they will give him his miranda rights because they want to be sure any statement the individual may make is admissible in court...
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Apr 22, 2013
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let's talk about miranda here and the fact that his rights have not been read to him. what do you make of that? will that be an issue going forward in this particular case? >> you know, it depends. first, i don't know -- we don't know if he's said anything. if he hasn't made any statements at all, the fact that he didn't get his miranda rights read is not going to be an a relevant issue. if he's made statements i think what the government is doing in expanding that public safety exception beyond the immediacy of the act i think is something that will be taken up, and it will have to be looked at maybe by the u.s. supreme court who just last week heard oral argument in the case from houston that was asking the question when does the fifth amendment or when does your right to remain silent gyp, and so we're already looking at these issues. this is an expansion i think that expands the public safety exception. i think some court is going to have to look at that. >> thank you very much. it's been almost a week now since this city was terrorized, and it's seemingly been one
let's talk about miranda here and the fact that his rights have not been read to him. what do you make of that? will that be an issue going forward in this particular case? >> you know, it depends. first, i don't know -- we don't know if he's said anything. if he hasn't made any statements at all, the fact that he didn't get his miranda rights read is not going to be an a relevant issue. if he's made statements i think what the government is doing in expanding that public safety exception...
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Apr 22, 2013
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>> the -- the decision not to read miranda rights was made by the federal officials. this is a unique clause to the terrorism law that we've not dealt with at the local level before. so, we are standing by and watching that at this point in time to see how that develops. but, the lawyers are involved in the decision, and certainly we're very anxious to talk to him, and the investigators will be doing that as soon as possible. >> commissioner over the weekend i heard you say you believe you found evidence your offices did you believe that these brothers were planning some kind of another attack, or at least prepared for it. tell us about that. >> the two suspects were armed with handguns at the scene of the shoot-out. and there were multiple explosive devices, including a large one that was similar to the pressure cooker device that was found on boylston street. i saw that with my own eyes. i believe that the only reason that someone would have those in their possession was to further attack people and cause more -- more death and destruction. >> it was an arsenal that
>> the -- the decision not to read miranda rights was made by the federal officials. this is a unique clause to the terrorism law that we've not dealt with at the local level before. so, we are standing by and watching that at this point in time to see how that develops. but, the lawyers are involved in the decision, and certainly we're very anxious to talk to him, and the investigators will be doing that as soon as possible. >> commissioner over the weekend i heard you say you...
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Apr 22, 2013
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. >> so all of that talk of some sort of public safety exception before you give him his miranda rights, all that talk of naming him as an enemy combatant, all of that is moot right now. they've gone forward with the official proceedings. >> well, they may have used the public safety exception, and apparently they were using it to question him, and he responded in some way given his medical condition. but certainly now that he has a lawyer, that period, however long it was, is over. and you're right, the enemy combatant thing was a nonstarter from the never going to happen. this is a criminal case in federal court in massachusetts, and that's where it will stay until it's resolved one way or another. >> it's going to take a while. thanks very much, jeffrey. much more on what's going on in this boston investigation coming up here in "the situation room" 0. >>> also, another terror plot released today, new information. canadian authorities announcing the arrest of two men believed to be part of a terror plot to attack a passenger train that may have been heading towards the united states,
. >> so all of that talk of some sort of public safety exception before you give him his miranda rights, all that talk of naming him as an enemy combatant, all of that is moot right now. they've gone forward with the official proceedings. >> well, they may have used the public safety exception, and apparently they were using it to question him, and he responded in some way given his medical condition. but certainly now that he has a lawyer, that period, however long it was, is over....
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Apr 23, 2013
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from dzhokhar tsarnaev to investigators, we do not know if that was before or after he received his miranda warnings or before or after he obtained counsel. that's an excellent point. one of the things we do know that he is saying apparently is that it was his brother tamerlan who was the mastermind here. is that something that could be helpful to his defense if he was merely following his brother? >> well, it will be helpful to his defense in the sense of mitigating the penalty that he might end up suffering. from what i've read and what i've seen, he's clearly as culpable as his brother. the videos that they picked up, and the statements that he made to the driver of the suv, all would indicate that he was a willing participant in this crime, and also the fact that he fled from the scene would further indicate his willingness to participate in this crime. however, any influence that he might have suffered from his brother, his brother's influence on him, may again go to mitigate any penalty that might be imposed upon him. whether he ends up getting the death penalty or whether he ends up
from dzhokhar tsarnaev to investigators, we do not know if that was before or after he received his miranda warnings or before or after he obtained counsel. that's an excellent point. one of the things we do know that he is saying apparently is that it was his brother tamerlan who was the mastermind here. is that something that could be helpful to his defense if he was merely following his brother? >> well, it will be helpful to his defense in the sense of mitigating the penalty that he...
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Apr 17, 2013
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and one of our justice producers is saying there is not an arrest yet, apprehension, an arrest, miranda rights being processed, these can all mean different things to different people in the cloud of this. but i am told by a boston law enforcement source that they believe that they have the suspect. >> with anderson cooper here now, word of an arrest here and the boston marathon attacks. we have heard the u.s. federal marshals have taken the suspect to the courthouse that would be obvious procedure in a federal investigation. we believe it all started with videotape they were analyzing from a store across the street from the second explosion, we believe it was a lord & taylor, a man was identified, putting down something that officials believe proximated the type of bag that was holding what they thought was an explosive device in one of these that we have been showing you all morning. one of these pressure cookers. and they found him. we're not exactly sure. we don't know what the procedure was, what they cross referenced to find this particular individual. juliette and john said may h
and one of our justice producers is saying there is not an arrest yet, apprehension, an arrest, miranda rights being processed, these can all mean different things to different people in the cloud of this. but i am told by a boston law enforcement source that they believe that they have the suspect. >> with anderson cooper here now, word of an arrest here and the boston marathon attacks. we have heard the u.s. federal marshals have taken the suspect to the courthouse that would be obvious...
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Apr 23, 2013
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it was unclear if he was read his miranda rights. but in washington, white house spokesman jay carney said he's a naturalized u.s. citizen, so he will not face a military tribunal. >> he will not be treated as an enemy combatant. we will prosecute this terrorist through our civilian system of justice, under us law. u.s. citizen can not be trialed, tried rather in military commissions. and it's important to remember that since 9-11 we have used the federal court system to convict and incarcerate hundreds of terrorists. >> brown: tsarnaev was also likely to face state charges in the shooting death of a police officer at m.i.t. it all followed his dramatic capture friday evening, when he was found hiding and wounded in a boat behind a home in the boston suburb of watertown. his older brother tamarlen died hours earlier in a shoot-out with police that triggered the all-day manhunt and shut down the city. yesterday, on cbs, massachusetts governor deval patrick stood by the unprecedented measures. >> i think people understood that we were
it was unclear if he was read his miranda rights. but in washington, white house spokesman jay carney said he's a naturalized u.s. citizen, so he will not face a military tribunal. >> he will not be treated as an enemy combatant. we will prosecute this terrorist through our civilian system of justice, under us law. u.s. citizen can not be trialed, tried rather in military commissions. and it's important to remember that since 9-11 we have used the federal court system to convict and...
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Apr 21, 2013
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. >> we now know that the suspect has not been given his miranda warnings. and there's a lot of discussion about the legal avenues that might be taken. but, evyenia, as an interroga r interrogator, how much do you care about the legal discussions going on and does that effect how you go about your job? >> yes, the legal aspect is very, very important. that comes from levels above you. so if the law does allow you to not ask those miranda rights, you can proceed. but you cannot make up the rules as you go. if you do not follow the law, if you do deviate from it, the things you do could cost the case ultimately. any confession you could get could be thrown out or dismissed or anything like that. you want to make sure that you do follow the law even though you may feel otherwise, we have to be careful. >> all right. an experienced interrogator, thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we have some good news for all that flooding out west. we'll tell you what it is, your weather forecast coming up. hey! did you know that honey nut cheeri
. >> we now know that the suspect has not been given his miranda warnings. and there's a lot of discussion about the legal avenues that might be taken. but, evyenia, as an interroga r interrogator, how much do you care about the legal discussions going on and does that effect how you go about your job? >> yes, the legal aspect is very, very important. that comes from levels above you. so if the law does allow you to not ask those miranda rights, you can proceed. but you cannot make...
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Apr 22, 2013
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they've chosen to question him without reading him miranda rights. what does that mean for any information they might be getting? >> well, it's very important to the people -- we've been talking a lot about miranda and i think it's important for people to understand what it does and doesn't mean. if you are questioned without your miranda rights, all that means is that the statements you make cannot be used against you in a criminal court. they can be used against other people. they can be used as leads to other inquiries. and you can still be prosecuted with lots of other evidence. all it means is that those statements cannot be used against you. from what it certainly appears there is lots of other evidence against this fellow. so the fact that the government might be giving up the chance to use some of it is not much of a sacrifice on the part of the government. >> he also at this point could indicate he wants an attorney and doesn't want to answer any questions, correct? >> absolutely. even when someone doesn't get miranda rights, the statements
they've chosen to question him without reading him miranda rights. what does that mean for any information they might be getting? >> well, it's very important to the people -- we've been talking a lot about miranda and i think it's important for people to understand what it does and doesn't mean. if you are questioned without your miranda rights, all that means is that the statements you make cannot be used against you in a criminal court. they can be used against other people. they can...
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Apr 20, 2013
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. >> i think the miranda issue is an easier issue. he doesn't have to be mar lindaized for a lot of reason. first of all, they have enough evidence to convict him without getting a confession from him. all miranda gets you is a confession you can use in court. you can use that information for everything else. remember, he confessed already to the guy they kidnapped. the guy he kidnapped says, these two guys told us, we did the bombing. they got great witness and they got a great confession. maybe even better than a law enforcement confession where you can claim it was forced out of you. they gave a upon takenious confession -- spontaneous confession. >> bob wants to get in here. so then why did they need to make that statement? i'm trying to figure out why they made that statement? >> i don't know exactly why they made it. maybe because they got so much criticism -- remember the christmas morning bomber that they mirandaized right away, lost the opportunity to get information from him? so i think maybe they were playing defense. >> le
. >> i think the miranda issue is an easier issue. he doesn't have to be mar lindaized for a lot of reason. first of all, they have enough evidence to convict him without getting a confession from him. all miranda gets you is a confession you can use in court. you can use that information for everything else. remember, he confessed already to the guy they kidnapped. the guy he kidnapped says, these two guys told us, we did the bombing. they got great witness and they got a great...
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Apr 23, 2013
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miranda rights. we've watched enough detective shows no know, police shows, they give miranda rights almost like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it's done. why do you think that's an issue? now we just got the word as we went on the air tonight the defendant here, the suspect, i guess he's a defendant now, has been given his miranda rights. >> this is truly something of an urban legend. people like to watch shows where a criminal goes free because he wasn't given miranda rights. that's extremely rare. i do criminal defense work. i can tell you, the most you can hope for in a miranda case is one or two statements will not make it into court. it's rare the whole case falls out unless everything -- >> so it's not the poison fruit thing? >> there is a poison fruit provision, standard. but it's very rare for it to pollute an entire case. >> let me ask you practically, why don't the law enforcement officials, the federal officials up there who have him in custody at the hospital, why didn't they just do this
miranda rights. we've watched enough detective shows no know, police shows, they give miranda rights almost like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it's done. why do you think that's an issue? now we just got the word as we went on the air tonight the defendant here, the suspect, i guess he's a defendant now, has been given his miranda rights. >> this is truly something of an urban legend. people like to watch shows where a criminal goes free because he wasn't given miranda rights. that's...
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Apr 22, 2013
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bill: are you okay with him not being read his miranda rights? >> i am. at this point i think it's perfectly fine. again i don't think it matters under what exception. you can always mirandize this individual, but the important thing is that get the information now. bill: i have not heard a lot of people disagree with that. >> think about the opposite what if they had read him the miranda rights and what if he had clammed up and what if there, god forbid been another attack that we could have seen coming if we had questioned the guy. just think of the conversation if there was a second attack that we could have prevented because we let the guy clam up. bill: this particular decision was broadened two years and and changed by executive order. that is something the president put in action in case you would have an event like this. that you could possibly have active, ongoing terror attacks or threats of terror attacks that could endanger the safety of the public. >> that's why i think he's done the right thing by not giving him the ability to be quiet. we n
bill: are you okay with him not being read his miranda rights? >> i am. at this point i think it's perfectly fine. again i don't think it matters under what exception. you can always mirandize this individual, but the important thing is that get the information now. bill: i have not heard a lot of people disagree with that. >> think about the opposite what if they had read him the miranda rights and what if he had clammed up and what if there, god forbid been another attack that we...
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Apr 21, 2013
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investigators did not read him his miranda rights when he was captured. they invoked what they call the public safety exception. it permits law enforcement officials to interrogate a suspect and use that information as direct evident in court, and that is causing some controversy out there. let's talk about that. we'll talk about that in a few moments. also want to talk about other issues. joining us, former u.s. attorney doug jones who led the prosecutor against eric ruduffel, the 1996 atlanta olympic bomber. thank you for joining us. first of all, let's talk about this video. this video that has now surfaced that cnn has confirmed, a well known jihadist in dagestan who himself was killed in december, the video was posted on tamerlan tsarnaev's youtube channel. since then, it's been deleted. what does that say, if you're a u.s. attorney investigating this case, what does that say to you? >> well, wolf, i think it would be one of two things. there obviously could be some contact since he traveled over that way. there could have been some contact. there co
investigators did not read him his miranda rights when he was captured. they invoked what they call the public safety exception. it permits law enforcement officials to interrogate a suspect and use that information as direct evident in court, and that is causing some controversy out there. let's talk about that. we'll talk about that in a few moments. also want to talk about other issues. joining us, former u.s. attorney doug jones who led the prosecutor against eric ruduffel, the 1996 atlanta...
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Apr 21, 2013
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is entitled to his miranda rights. why? >> well, i think the administration is handling it exactly correct. there is a public safety exception under the miranda allowing law enforcement to interview him, making sure there are no other bombs, threats, perpetrators still out there giving the law enforcement flexibility to do the that prior to miranda and i think the court will interpret it broadly and give them the time they need to make sure that the public is safe. after that, he will have to be mirandized, doesn't mean the end of cooperation, but no basis yet to conclude they should be treated at enemy combatants. we're talking about an american citizen on american soil. there's no evidence that i've seen yet that they were a part of an al qaeda cell or directed by a foreign government. we're very far afield from a situation which is sort of the paradigm for enemy combatant status. that is, someone captured on the balg battlefield in a theater of war. resist these charges as an enemy combatant. the court has proven capable
is entitled to his miranda rights. why? >> well, i think the administration is handling it exactly correct. there is a public safety exception under the miranda allowing law enforcement to interview him, making sure there are no other bombs, threats, perpetrators still out there giving the law enforcement flexibility to do the that prior to miranda and i think the court will interpret it broadly and give them the time they need to make sure that the public is safe. after that, he will...
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Apr 22, 2013
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how hard is it to reach somebody their miranda rights? they were talking about not reading his miranda rights. terror suspecthe enemyd be detained as an commabantant. guest: issue of the war on drugs -- the one not be addressed in this bill. .ocial security will be people use phony social security numbers. your card is pretty easy to forge. an effort to crack down on this. an expansion on the e-verify program. they will check you against existing social security databases to make sure you are work in the united states. your photo information will have to be shared with the database so they know it is you. some interesting propo w you protect your social security number. if you've just applied for a ob, you can in effect lock it so that no other employer can check it until you authorize it again. to try an important way to make it difficult for people not legally authorized to work in the united states to do that. the hope this is shuts off the magnets. people come here because they want to find jobs. the idea is to make it difficult to fi
how hard is it to reach somebody their miranda rights? they were talking about not reading his miranda rights. terror suspecthe enemyd be detained as an commabantant. guest: issue of the war on drugs -- the one not be addressed in this bill. .ocial security will be people use phony social security numbers. your card is pretty easy to forge. an effort to crack down on this. an expansion on the e-verify program. they will check you against existing social security databases to make sure you are...
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Apr 22, 2013
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. >>> for now federal officials have decided not to read tsarnaev his miranda rights. miranda rights inform criminals of their right to remain silent and their right to an attorney. this is allowed on a limited basis when the public may be in immediate danger, and there are those like senator lindsey graham who say tsarnaev should be consideredn enemy combatant so he can waive his right. others disagree. >> there's plenty of evidence. they don't need it to get him into a trial. i don't think we have to cross the line and say he's an enemy combatant which could be challenged in court. one circuit rules one way, one rules the other way. >> we should reserve the right to look at him as an enemy combatant and continue to look for evidence and if we find evidence and go to him as chuck says and gather intelligence. >> now the suspect's mother says tamer lan was contacted by fbi. the fbi says that is not true but the fbi did interview him in 2011 at the request of the russian government. officials are focusing on a trip he made to russia in 2012. sky news's katie stallard ha
. >>> for now federal officials have decided not to read tsarnaev his miranda rights. miranda rights inform criminals of their right to remain silent and their right to an attorney. this is allowed on a limited basis when the public may be in immediate danger, and there are those like senator lindsey graham who say tsarnaev should be consideredn enemy combatant so he can waive his right. others disagree. >> there's plenty of evidence. they don't need it to get him into a trial. i...
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Apr 23, 2013
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the miranda warning says you amendment right. if the information you provide, information this may save lives prevent terrorist acts in the future, can't be used not in you, you are danger of self-incrimination. used it would is still be habeas corpus right. so what we are saying and what he is saying and i think it is rong there is no such thing as global jihadist movement. i think the evidence of that is we will treat d somebody who commits an act of brutal terrorism as a criminal them to lawyer up and say don't say a word, information,hem any we will deal later and i think i think this is illful blindness and reckless in regard to the people who may foruture.ctims in the guest: responding to the caller, i think what you are saying is i hear it t because from other people in the military. a purpose. war have if we unlawfully seek to expand that purpose we harm only armed forces, ur who are legitimately carrying in limited nflict particular areas in afghanistan. and the constitutional right would have been violated here had we h
the miranda warning says you amendment right. if the information you provide, information this may save lives prevent terrorist acts in the future, can't be used not in you, you are danger of self-incrimination. used it would is still be habeas corpus right. so what we are saying and what he is saying and i think it is rong there is no such thing as global jihadist movement. i think the evidence of that is we will treat d somebody who commits an act of brutal terrorism as a criminal them to...
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Apr 22, 2013
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he was read his miranda rights. muitics say the intelligence enm committee as to how the plot develops. bom he is now in super max. i r > officers and federal ey wthorities take him alive tis unlike his brother who perished in the fight they were trying hard becey wse they wanted to ay the questions as they go forward to speaght r > he is an american citie inn. he can't be sent to guantanamo a bay he can't be tried in a co military cowas rission. cases there are cases where americans were deemed enemy combatants. pl hosea padilla for one but in the case of him they have not found any link to an al qaeda linked group and therefore no court in the u.s. would necessarily rily uphold the president as r in commander-in-chief in designating him as enetinue ould combatant. this would be shaky i am told by experts.lleged even if he is deemed an enetinu he watant he has a right to an attornaney he doesn't have to tt if he dorcsnk means are limited means interrogators have at their disposal to make him do so. >> the 4cmhour t
he was read his miranda rights. muitics say the intelligence enm committee as to how the plot develops. bom he is now in super max. i r > officers and federal ey wthorities take him alive tis unlike his brother who perished in the fight they were trying hard becey wse they wanted to ay the questions as they go forward to speaght r > he is an american citie inn. he can't be sent to guantanamo a bay he can't be tried in a co military cowas rission. cases there are cases where americans were...
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Apr 23, 2013
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but also on the same time now we have a suspect who already was read his miranda rights. he already have a lawyer present. and i don't think that should affect any trained interrogator, any trained interviewer in doing their job. we have been doing this for many, many years. we did it against terrorist suspects, organized crimes, people who are charged with treason, spies, and it always worked, and it always gets the intended results. >> in terms of this breaking news that we've just got tonight. again, this is a senior government official saying that the initial interrogation of dzhokhar tsarnaev in his hospital bed, he says that he and his brother were not in touch with any overseas terrorists or groups. they conceived the attack on their own, motivated he told them by religious fervor. that's the language that i have been given. how -- how should that be approached in terms of strategically trying to unwind any threats that might exist beyond these young men? they're saying they acted alone. but presumably, the thing that made them want to do this could make other peop
but also on the same time now we have a suspect who already was read his miranda rights. he already have a lawyer present. and i don't think that should affect any trained interrogator, any trained interviewer in doing their job. we have been doing this for many, many years. we did it against terrorist suspects, organized crimes, people who are charged with treason, spies, and it always worked, and it always gets the intended results. >> in terms of this breaking news that we've just got...
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just to confirm, this -- dzhokhar tsarnaev has not yet been read his miranda rights, correct? >> i have to say i don't know. because there was an initial appearance today, that's why this complaint is out. the circuit executive, the administrator of this area, has put out a statement saying there was an initial appearance before a magistrate judge. that is as far as i understand it an arraignment. i have never heard of an arraignment without an attorney present. they didn't mention an attorney present. if an attorney is present, the attorney will simply say to the client, you -- don't answer questions. at that point, the attorney is the person the prosecutor is supposed to deal with. i have to say, there is information out there that we don't have. whether an attorney was present, whether this was an actual arraignment, i think we just need to hold off on that until we get more information. >> we're holding off. still so early this all happened. >> before we let deb feyerick go and chase down that lead she was referring to, deb, i was wondering, is there anything else that sta
just to confirm, this -- dzhokhar tsarnaev has not yet been read his miranda rights, correct? >> i have to say i don't know. because there was an initial appearance today, that's why this complaint is out. the circuit executive, the administrator of this area, has put out a statement saying there was an initial appearance before a magistrate judge. that is as far as i understand it an arraignment. i have never heard of an arraignment without an attorney present. they didn't mention an...
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they waved tsarnaev's miranda rights. they said he could still pose a threat either because there are more bombs planted out there or he's connected to a larger terrorist cell. either way it has some lawmakers concerned. as investigators continue to interrogate their suspect some lawmakers argue he should be treated as an enemy combatant and denied an attorney for the time being. >> we should be allowed her intelligence-gathering purposes. >> investigators say they're still uncertain whether zocor and his brother tamerlan who died in a shoot-out on friday with police have any ties to fore te union issued a statement saying we must not waver from our tried and true justice system even in the most difficult of times. denial of rights is un-american and will only make it harder to obtain fair convictions. some liberal lawmakers agree and said they would be comfortable with tsarnaev being designated as an enemy combatant. >> i don't believe. it would beunconstitutional to >> it carries its own risk especially if that suspect
they waved tsarnaev's miranda rights. they said he could still pose a threat either because there are more bombs planted out there or he's connected to a larger terrorist cell. either way it has some lawmakers concerned. as investigators continue to interrogate their suspect some lawmakers argue he should be treated as an enemy combatant and denied an attorney for the time being. >> we should be allowed her intelligence-gathering purposes. >> investigators say they're still...
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Apr 23, 2013
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he does not need to see his miranda rights read to him in bed. laughable. >>steve: from what i've read this morning, apparently it was their mother who pushed them towards islam, a very extreme form of islam. you've got to wonder whether or not the widow of the older brother, who is now with her parents, knew anything. there she is right there. catherine russell tsarnaev. she reportedly didn't have any reason to suspect him. why? because she was apparently working 70 to 80 hours a week as a home health care aide. while she was away, he was supposedly taking care of the three-year-old toddler. >>gretchen: she had totally changed who she was. many people allege she had been brain washed by this radical islam thought, that she was a christian before, and three years ago she decided to convert. but not only just convert; really get into the depths of it and change exactly who she was. we saw her there in the garb. people who knew her in high school said she was nothing like she was before. she dropped out of college. she had aspired to become somebody and decid
he does not need to see his miranda rights read to him in bed. laughable. >>steve: from what i've read this morning, apparently it was their mother who pushed them towards islam, a very extreme form of islam. you've got to wonder whether or not the widow of the older brother, who is now with her parents, knew anything. there she is right there. catherine russell tsarnaev. she reportedly didn't have any reason to suspect him. why? because she was apparently working 70 to 80 hours a week as...
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Apr 21, 2013
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. >> gregg: we have toe concerned about miranda rights -- that is irrelevant. there is plethora of evidence and he allegedly confessed to the carjacking. so what do you want to do is fi out other planned attacks and accomplices? >> absolutely. you want to find out who was involved in a broader plan, if there is a broader plan. at were all the bombs that were thrown athe police, where were they slated for and is there anybody else lurking i the wings? the trick will be to chip to his heart and who is close to heart andse the leverage. misrepresent the facts, they will be arrested. >> gregg: the supreme court has said so. >> one thousand percent. this is the perfect scenario. all the leverage is on the side of the investigators. he has no idea. he is 19. he is dumb as rocks. he failed six out of seven classes in college. he forgott surveillance video existed in america by the bombing on monday. he is naive and impressionable. they can get to i am. >> gregg: you want to look at all electronic communications and personal property and his car. anybody he might have
. >> gregg: we have toe concerned about miranda rights -- that is irrelevant. there is plethora of evidence and he allegedly confessed to the carjacking. so what do you want to do is fi out other planned attacks and accomplices? >> absolutely. you want to find out who was involved in a broader plan, if there is a broader plan. at were all the bombs that were thrown athe police, where were they slated for and is there anybody else lurking i the wings? the trick will be to chip to his...
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Apr 21, 2013
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he was given his miranda rights. finally they had been put in place. they're going to question him to use that information to collect intelligence so that they protect the rest of us. >> this case seems like a prime candidate for capital punishment. do you think there will be much debate about whether or not he gets the death penalty? >> i sure hope not. he's a poster boy for if. >> how so? >> he used an explosive device. he killed people, he maimed people, he intended to do more. he rings all the bells. >> what if he gives more information about people overseas who they were in could cahoots with? >> you mean cooperates? >> yeah. is that the thing that helps you avoid the death penalty. >> it's one thing that helps you avoid the death penalty. i hope it doesn't get him anything less than life. >> we see this and it sort of reminded me of the dc sniper case in a way. maybe the younger person who was influenced by his older brother. maybe led astray in some capacity. we may uncover that the brother was really the ring leader here, the one who was drivin
he was given his miranda rights. finally they had been put in place. they're going to question him to use that information to collect intelligence so that they protect the rest of us. >> this case seems like a prime candidate for capital punishment. do you think there will be much debate about whether or not he gets the death penalty? >> i sure hope not. he's a poster boy for if. >> how so? >> he used an explosive device. he killed people, he maimed people, he intended...
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Apr 21, 2013
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. >> there's been a lot of attention paid to the fact miranda rights were not immediately read to him. governor patrick said in the opening, said last night, the suspect is not in condition to talk at this moment. is there any indication how long they can go before having to read miranda rights to him if they are going to get the chance to interrogate him without the warning, without access to a lawyer? >> reporter: a very good question. one that i think is likely to be litigated. now what the justice department is saying that they want to use this special high-value interrogation team to question him without reading him his miranda rights, under the public safety exception. and the -- question and that has been defined as 48 hours. they have 48 hours to question him before they read him his rights. now, the aclu and the federal public defenders office here in boston which says -- said yesterday they expect to represent tsarnaev. they are challenging that and saying that they -- the government may be stretching it here. and, frankly, actually, the longer this goes on, the longer that
. >> there's been a lot of attention paid to the fact miranda rights were not immediately read to him. governor patrick said in the opening, said last night, the suspect is not in condition to talk at this moment. is there any indication how long they can go before having to read miranda rights to him if they are going to get the chance to interrogate him without the warning, without access to a lawyer? >> reporter: a very good question. one that i think is likely to be litigated....
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Apr 20, 2013
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it's called the public safety exception to the miranda rule. normally you have to tell someone they have a right to remain silent and if you don't, then you can't use anything they tell you in court. so that's why the miranda warning is given. but there is an exception. you don't have to do it if there's a possible threat to public safety. and here obviously there's a concern about whether there are potential accomplices. investigators say they haven't found any. or other explosives. they say they haven't found any of those either but that's what they want to ask him. and this exception probably begins to expire the moment you invoke it so it's probably no good for more than a day or two but nonetheless they can do that. afterwards they'll have to give him his miranda warning and say whether he'll continue to answer questions. the justice department says even in very serious cases like this, most people in custody do continue to talk. >> pete, who's going to be interrogating this guy? >> well, during this period of the public safety exemption,
it's called the public safety exception to the miranda rule. normally you have to tell someone they have a right to remain silent and if you don't, then you can't use anything they tell you in court. so that's why the miranda warning is given. but there is an exception. you don't have to do it if there's a possible threat to public safety. and here obviously there's a concern about whether there are potential accomplices. investigators say they haven't found any. or other explosives. they say...
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Apr 24, 2013
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i think the discussion about miranda is sue superfluous. some say it deter arrives from the fifth amendment and not from the warning and given the prevalence of it i don't think there's a person who doesn't know they have a right to remain silent. to think just because this young man was very intelligent and educated didn't know he had the right to remain silent because he was not given the miranda is silly. the fundamental issue is the paradigm in which we treat people in this instance facts as the attorney from the aclu point outs and i have to point out i'm not a huge fan of the aclu but i have to agree. we have an american citizen on american soil and to strip him of constitutional rights is preposterous. the supreme court has spoken to this after the civil war and they ruled that when the courts were open the right of habeas corpus couldn't be suspended. i'm a soldier and when you misuse the laws of war you endanger people like me on the battlefield. there are instances when terrorists are enemy combatants. this is not one of them. gue
i think the discussion about miranda is sue superfluous. some say it deter arrives from the fifth amendment and not from the warning and given the prevalence of it i don't think there's a person who doesn't know they have a right to remain silent. to think just because this young man was very intelligent and educated didn't know he had the right to remain silent because he was not given the miranda is silly. the fundamental issue is the paradigm in which we treat people in this instance facts...
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Apr 22, 2013
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the argument i guess is under this limited questioning period before he is formally advised of his miranda rights, he has and right to an attorney, doesn't have to answer any questions. there has been some suggestion that can only last maybe 48 hours or so if he's formally named an enemy combatant, that would go on for days if not weeks. i guess that's the distinction. >> it's the length of time. right. the enemy combatant, if that designation were made, could go on for weeks or even months. but i just think it's important to emphasize that the obama administration has absolutely not considered that, has not considered that approach, and every terrorism suspect under either the george w. bush administration or the obama administration who was arrested on american soil has been treated as a criminal defendant in the united states courts. senator graham's proposal would an complete departure from that approach and i don't think there's any indication that's going to happen.that approach a there's any indication that's going to happen. >> and he's a naturalized u.s. citizen. only 19. but last
the argument i guess is under this limited questioning period before he is formally advised of his miranda rights, he has and right to an attorney, doesn't have to answer any questions. there has been some suggestion that can only last maybe 48 hours or so if he's formally named an enemy combatant, that would go on for days if not weeks. i guess that's the distinction. >> it's the length of time. right. the enemy combatant, if that designation were made, could go on for weeks or even...
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Apr 22, 2013
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he has yet to be charged in connection with the attack or been notified of his miranda rights, however, this morning officials tell nbc news he's awake and using pen and paper to answer questions from investigators. all of this as the fbi says it has obtained surveillance footage showing tsarnaev putting down his backpack near the finish line just minutes before the explosion. massachusetts governor deval patrick says he's been briefed on the footage. >> the suspect took the backpack off, put it down, did not react when the first explosion went off and then moved away from the backpack in time for the second explosion, so pretty clear about his involvement and pretty chilling, frankly. >> all right, so while we wait on that video, i want you to look at these new infrared images released showing the final intense moments of the manhunt. stun grenades just exploded as police moved in to capture the 19-year-old, and it capped a nearly four-day search for dzhokhar and his older brother, tamerlan, and while the nation was reeling, we are getting word this morning that the brothers actually
he has yet to be charged in connection with the attack or been notified of his miranda rights, however, this morning officials tell nbc news he's awake and using pen and paper to answer questions from investigators. all of this as the fbi says it has obtained surveillance footage showing tsarnaev putting down his backpack near the finish line just minutes before the explosion. massachusetts governor deval patrick says he's been briefed on the footage. >> the suspect took the backpack off,...
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Apr 22, 2013
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you shouldn't have questioned without his miranda. what happens then? that means, they throw out his statement. so what? they don't need his statement in connection. >> they have all the other evidence. >> this is about getting intelligence from him. not a statement they can use in court. >> and these charges expected to be filed. almost certain to face the death penalty. >> it will be a death-eligible charge for sure. a decision made later to seek the death penalty. the use of a weapon of mass destruction would be a death-eligible. >> the fbi interviewing the older brother in 2011. some members of congress saying that was a missed opportunity, criticizing the fbi for not keeping their eyes on tamerlan. >> well, let's look at this. hundreds of thousands of versions of him are floating around the country. the fbi go, they do a background, sometimes ultimately interview them. visiting jihadist websites are not against the law. a lot of teenagers and young adults are doing that. so, the question is, you have to do an assessment if you're an fbi agent. do y
you shouldn't have questioned without his miranda. what happens then? that means, they throw out his statement. so what? they don't need his statement in connection. >> they have all the other evidence. >> this is about getting intelligence from him. not a statement they can use in court. >> and these charges expected to be filed. almost certain to face the death penalty. >> it will be a death-eligible charge for sure. a decision made later to seek the death penalty. the...
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Apr 22, 2013
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rather you walk through a miranda warning, someone has a chance to step back, what's this about an attorney? what's this about a right to remain silence? you need to protect the public. you need that information. >> do you believe that young man h y to facthat pelt >> given the nathese crimes, i would say the answer to that is yes. >> the city of boston is angry, justifiably. and that anger is unlikely to dissipate very quickly. so, can he get a fair trial in that city? >> very difficult to move a trial. the legal standard essentially no jury in this city will be able to look fairly on this evidence. very high standard. i believe he will face trial in boston. >> michael garcia, thank you. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> as investigators peer deeply into the lives of the bombing suspect, they will look at what happened in a remote and dangerous part of russia, visited not long ago by the older brother. he apparently came back a changed man. and abc's kirit radia is there tonight. >> reporter: last year, tamerlan traveled here, to dagestan, a region home to an islamist uprising. investigator
rather you walk through a miranda warning, someone has a chance to step back, what's this about an attorney? what's this about a right to remain silence? you need to protect the public. you need that information. >> do you believe that young man h y to facthat pelt >> given the nathese crimes, i would say the answer to that is yes. >> the city of boston is angry, justifiably. and that anger is unlikely to dissipate very quickly. so, can he get a fair trial in that city?...
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Apr 22, 2013
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but at some point in time, go with miranda, that's fine. but in the initial stages, we don't want to repeat with the underwear bomber. >> brian: which is hours after, he lawyered up and shut up. >> this idea combatant versus criminal, i'm not particularly in the enemy combatant point from everything i'm hearing. >> gretchen: let me ask you about the cameras. so many people were fascinated by the amazing work the f.b.i. did do initially and going through hundreds and thousands of images, finding these two guys. is this a call now for more cameras in big cities? >> certainly. this is an evolution. i'm just back from london, which is probably the most failed city in the -- survveiled city in the world. we're getting money to put coordinated cameras, public safety cameras into new york. holding back most american cities now are funds. they're laying police officers. if they can't hire police, they don't have money for cameras. most of the images i saw related to the identification of these two kids were from private cameras, lord & taylor, diff
but at some point in time, go with miranda, that's fine. but in the initial stages, we don't want to repeat with the underwear bomber. >> brian: which is hours after, he lawyered up and shut up. >> this idea combatant versus criminal, i'm not particularly in the enemy combatant point from everything i'm hearing. >> gretchen: let me ask you about the cameras. so many people were fascinated by the amazing work the f.b.i. did do initially and going through hundreds and thousands...
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Apr 21, 2013
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these are things only obtained if he doesn't get the miranda rights. public safety exceptions will expire in 24 hours. he can lawyer up. >> that's what happened in the case of the underwear bomber, nigerian who tried to blow up a plane over the united states on christmas day 2009. he was a foreign citizen and read his miranda rights after 50 minutes. there was criticism at the time that they were unable to mine him for information how the plot developed overseas suspect is in supermax prison in colorado. >> the 48-hour thing is not an absolute fixed time period. oh, by the way, military commissions which have not secured any convictions, really, against anyone since 9/11, there is a right to council and there procedures, too. all of which keep getting tested. don't work. >> enemy combatant has nothing to do with the military commissions. >> dzhokhar tsarnaev could be deemed enemy combatant and still tried in a civilian court, which is what happened the w jose padilla in the past. it's not done often and justice department is in unchartered waters for h
these are things only obtained if he doesn't get the miranda rights. public safety exceptions will expire in 24 hours. he can lawyer up. >> that's what happened in the case of the underwear bomber, nigerian who tried to blow up a plane over the united states on christmas day 2009. he was a foreign citizen and read his miranda rights after 50 minutes. there was criticism at the time that they were unable to mine him for information how the plot developed overseas suspect is in supermax...
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Apr 21, 2013
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supreme court has recognized a limited exception to it's miranda ruling when police or the public are in imminent danger. >>> a new folk hero has emerged out of the terrible weekend. his name is dave hannaberry. he is the guy who found the suspect in his boat in his backyard. the internet is all abuzz to send him a giant thank you gift. here's abc news reporter gio. >> it's the now famous little boat that kept a big secret. the unlikely hideout for america's most wanted man. and this is the boat's owner. david hannaberry, a man now called the hero for finding the suspected marathon are bomber and calling 911. >>water town's chief of police was at the scene. >> what happened when your officers arrived? >> there was a shooting. >> that shooting so damaged the boat. >> his neighbors said, >> he's completely shocked, and he says my poor boat, my poor boat. he's taken care of that boat meticulously since he had it and now it's full of holes. >> now a digital show of support. people from all over the nation are turning to social media sites like facebook raising money to buy him a new boat.
supreme court has recognized a limited exception to it's miranda ruling when police or the public are in imminent danger. >>> a new folk hero has emerged out of the terrible weekend. his name is dave hannaberry. he is the guy who found the suspect in his boat in his backyard. the internet is all abuzz to send him a giant thank you gift. here's abc news reporter gio. >> it's the now famous little boat that kept a big secret. the unlikely hideout for america's most wanted man. and...
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Apr 22, 2013
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they didn't give a miranda warning so the aclu is shouting about that. and of course, well-known southern bell lindsey graham, why isn't he being treated as an enemy combatant? that one to me -- >> what about benghazi? >> shut up. >> stephanie: i'll always have benghazi. it is my terror. no. >> i would never go thirsty again. i'll have another mint julep thank you. >> stephanie: the legal expert i heard this weekend said this is a nonstarter to treat him as enemy combatants. did he a crime on u.s. soil. >> peter king said this. >> i believe -- should be portrayed as enemy combatants. senator mccain, senator graham, senator ayotte, there are so many questions unanswered so many potential links to terrorism here. the battlefield is now in the united states. i believe he is an enemy combatant. ultimately, he will be tried in a civilian court and the statements taken from him cannot be used against him in that trial. right now, the only links we have as much as chechnyan involvement in the islamic movement. are there other conspirators out there? where do th
they didn't give a miranda warning so the aclu is shouting about that. and of course, well-known southern bell lindsey graham, why isn't he being treated as an enemy combatant? that one to me -- >> what about benghazi? >> shut up. >> stephanie: i'll always have benghazi. it is my terror. no. >> i would never go thirsty again. i'll have another mint julep thank you. >> stephanie: the legal expert i heard this weekend said this is a nonstarter to treat him as enemy...
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Apr 23, 2013
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it allows the justice department to delay reading a suspect his miranda rights if doing so is in the interest of -- quote -- "public safety." the administration had rightly invoked this public safety exception in the case of the boston suspect which provided our national security professionals a discreet period of time to gather intelligence from the suspect without the presence of his lawyer. however, soon after questioning him this way, the administration recently reversed itself and read the suspect his miranda rights. in doing so, the administration, in my view, gave up a valuable opportunity to lawfully and thoroughly question the suspect for purposes of gathering intelligence about potential future terrorist plots. whether we will be able to acquire such information has now been left entirely at the discretion of the suspect and his lawyer. put simply, the suspect has been told he has the right to remain silent, and if he doesn't want to provide intelligence, he doesn't have to. is this a responsible balance between a citizen's rights and our national security? the suspect had
it allows the justice department to delay reading a suspect his miranda rights if doing so is in the interest of -- quote -- "public safety." the administration had rightly invoked this public safety exception in the case of the boston suspect which provided our national security professionals a discreet period of time to gather intelligence from the suspect without the presence of his lawyer. however, soon after questioning him this way, the administration recently reversed itself...
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. >> if it was greg that was picked up for this he couldn't be given his-mile-an-hour can -- miranda rights. >> he is a u.s. citizen and who he was working with. >> all our rights our rights our rights. >> why does it happen to me. >> you are the shadiest one at the table. >> that is true. >> more breaking news today. we have learned that a poison called ricin was mailed to president obama along with several lawmakers. the latest on that investigation and we're just learning that the president will be making a live statement from the white house a little later this hour on his gun control efforts. the senate today failed to muster enough votes to pass a compromise measure expanding background checks. we will bring that to you as soon as that begins. it's a very busy hour here on the five. stay with us. humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, to policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what ee comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mu
. >> if it was greg that was picked up for this he couldn't be given his-mile-an-hour can -- miranda rights. >> he is a u.s. citizen and who he was working with. >> all our rights our rights our rights. >> why does it happen to me. >> you are the shadiest one at the table. >> that is true. >> more breaking news today. we have learned that a poison called ricin was mailed to president obama along with several lawmakers. the latest on that investigation...
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Apr 22, 2013
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. >> while the obama administration has agreed to delay a reading of his miranda rights under a public safety exemption, secretary of defense chuck hagel has not seen evidence to link the bombings to terror groups. scrutiny turns to the fbi who reportedly questioned the older brother tamerlan in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. this is so interesting. of russia. the fbi told the a.p. despite interviewing him and relatives they did not find any activity. the agency dropped the ball. richard, i wonder if there is going to be a lot of questions and maybe even hearings out of this or what comes to mind just knowing those basic facts? >> there probably will be hearings of the fbi whether it learned more or could have done more. critics say that is monday morning quarterbacking. it ought to be about what we were talking about, what can we do to prevent or identify young people who are radicalized and how did we respond and how what did we learn about lockdowns. as the military would say it ought not to just focus on fbi. it's much bigger and much broader. we have to learn a lot f
. >> while the obama administration has agreed to delay a reading of his miranda rights under a public safety exemption, secretary of defense chuck hagel has not seen evidence to link the bombings to terror groups. scrutiny turns to the fbi who reportedly questioned the older brother tamerlan in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. this is so interesting. of russia. the fbi told the a.p. despite interviewing him and relatives they did not find any activity. the agency dropped the...
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Apr 20, 2013
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everyone should be given their miranda rights. host: if he is not given his miranda rights then they cannot use anything he talks to them about in a trial should this case goes to trial. caller: that is correct. said everybody should be given their rights. even the people in gitmo. that is how america works. talkedhe president about the court procedure that will be following this arrest of dzokhar tsarnaev. [video clip] >> that american spirit means staying true to the unity that makes us strong. blogs,ng tweets and there is a temptation to latch on to any bit of information and sometimes jump to conclusions. when a tragedy like this happens, when public safety is at risk and the stakes are so high, it is important we do this right. that is why we have investigations. that is why we relentlessly gather the facts. that is why we have courts. that is why we take care not to rush to judgment. not about the motivation of these individuals. certainly not about entire groups of people. after all the one thing that makes america the grea
everyone should be given their miranda rights. host: if he is not given his miranda rights then they cannot use anything he talks to them about in a trial should this case goes to trial. caller: that is correct. said everybody should be given their rights. even the people in gitmo. that is how america works. talkedhe president about the court procedure that will be following this arrest of dzokhar tsarnaev. [video clip] >> that american spirit means staying true to the unity that makes us...
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Apr 21, 2013
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within 10 hours he was read his miranda rights. critics on capitol hill say the intelligence community was unable to fine him for information as to how the empty developed. the underwear bomber eventually convicted and in super max prison in colorado. harris? >> harris: federal authorities tried to sake him alive unlike his brother who published in thy were really trying hard. why is it difficult to get that designation as an enemy combatant? >> well, for one, he's an american citizen. by law he can't be sent to guantanamo bay, can't be tried in a military commission. there are cases where americans were deemed enemy combatants and tried to federal court. jose padilla for one. in the case of dzhokhar tsarnaev authorities have not found a link to an al-qaeda-linked group, and therefore no court in the u.s. would necessarily uphold the president as commander in chief as designating him an enemy combatant. legally this would be shaky, i'm told, by experts. even if the alleged bomber is deemed an enemy combatant, he still has a right t
within 10 hours he was read his miranda rights. critics on capitol hill say the intelligence community was unable to fine him for information as to how the empty developed. the underwear bomber eventually convicted and in super max prison in colorado. harris? >> harris: federal authorities tried to sake him alive unlike his brother who published in thy were really trying hard. why is it difficult to get that designation as an enemy combatant? >> well, for one, he's an american...
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if or when he is, he will not be read his miranda rights. his surrounding days of terror in boston and party town. they did everything to capture him live after his brother was killed in a blazing shootout with police friday. from the white house down -- or thursday down, rather. from the white house down the priority is to learn the motives of the two brothers who they say are responsible for the attack at the marathon. he was captured friday night and taken to the hospital. but once he is a conscious, a special team of agents will question him without telling him he has right to remain silent or the right to have a lawyer for about 50 minutes. it's a special exemption. >> we will determine what happened. we will investigate any associations that these terrorists may have had. >> there there is a public safey exemption in cases of national security and charges involving acts of terrorism so the government has that opportunity. >> meanwhile hundreds of people honored m.i.t. police officer sean colyer, who was shot to death in his cruiser thu
if or when he is, he will not be read his miranda rights. his surrounding days of terror in boston and party town. they did everything to capture him live after his brother was killed in a blazing shootout with police friday. from the white house down -- or thursday down, rather. from the white house down the priority is to learn the motives of the two brothers who they say are responsible for the attack at the marathon. he was captured friday night and taken to the hospital. but once he is a...
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they'll question him without reading him the miranda rights. invoking a rare public safety exception they only have a few minutes. >> 50 minutes approximately. this is a bit controversial. we'll see how they proceed with that. we're expecting files to be charged soon, perhaps as early as tuesday. he could be charged with using weapons of mass destruction. this 19-year-old could be facing the death sentence. several public defenders have offered to represent him. we'll see if it comes to that or if he hires his own attorney. >> we have team coverage this morning and we start with abc's byron pitts in boston. good morning, byron. >> reporter: good morning, bianna. six local boston churches will hold an interfaith service later today for the victims and survivors of monday's bombings. meantime, law enforcement is focused on suspect number two, here at beth israel hospital. this morning, police and federal agents are anxiously waiting to question the man who sparked nearly a week-long man hunt. that ended in a spray of bullets. overnight this new v
they'll question him without reading him the miranda rights. invoking a rare public safety exception they only have a few minutes. >> 50 minutes approximately. this is a bit controversial. we'll see how they proceed with that. we're expecting files to be charged soon, perhaps as early as tuesday. he could be charged with using weapons of mass destruction. this 19-year-old could be facing the death sentence. several public defenders have offered to represent him. we'll see if it comes to...